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John Hofmann avatar
(@johnhofmann)
Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 7241
Topic starter  

Hello all:

I confess to not knowing a
ton about the FAA's complex TSO regulations, so here is my
possibly ignorant question (if it is
please tell me).

Our original Bendix.King comm radio is
having lots of problems and we want to install anew comm
radio. I'm in love with both the Garmin GTR 200 and the?
Icom A220. Neither of those radios is TSO'd and my 'Lakes is certified (thus factory built).

1. Have any of you gotten a field
approval from the FAA to
install such a radio?
2. If so, can that be used as
a basis for the same installation in my
airplane?
3. Is there any other
option to install one of those radios, short
of putting my airplane in the Experimental category?

It seems incredibly
archaic to pay $5,000 or $6,000 for a
TSO'd radio when these others are in use
everyday in thousands of LSA and perform
as good or better than the ancient stuff
we have in our airplanes today, for
around $1500. Just wondering if there is
ANY way to skin this cat? Thank you!

-- 
Marc C. Lee
(949) 636-1532


______ | ______
_____(*)__/___
???? o/ o? 

   
Quote
Joe Preston avatar
(@joe-preston)
Noble Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1143
 
Hi Marc,
The only way that I know of is to get a field approval for non TSOd parts into a certified aircraft.  You might want to talk to the factory to see what they say. That would certainly be the easiest way, but would probably be a dead end. 
Sometimes your local FSDO will have some leeway. Call as a last resort and ask. They can only say no.
Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini

On Sep 25, 2015, at 20:08, Marc Lee marc@classicjet.com [greatlakesbiplane] <greatlakesbiplane@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hello all:

I confess to not knowing a ton about the FAA's complex TSO regulations, so here is my possibly ignorant question (if it is please tell me).

Our original Bendix.King comm radio is having lots of problems and we want to install anew comm radio. I'm in love with both the Garmin GTR 200 and the  Icom A220. Neither of those radios is TSO'd and my 'Lakes is certified
(thus factory built).

1. Have any of you gotten a field approval from the FAA to install such a radio?
2. If so, can that be used as a basis for the same installation in my airplane?
3. Is there any other option to install one of those radios, short of putting my airplane in the
Experimental category?

It seems incredibly archaic to pay $5,000 or $6,000 for a TSO'd radio when these others are in use everyday in thousands of LSA and perform as good or better than the ancient stuff we have in our airplanes today, for around $1500. Just wondering
if there is ANY way to skin this cat? Thank you!

-- 
Marc C. Lee
(949) 636-1532


______ | ______
_____(*)__/___
     o/ o  

   
ReplyQuote
John Hofmann avatar
(@johnhofmann)
Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 7241
Topic starter  
Hi Marc,
I think that if you could rig as a temporary or removable mount it would be legal.  All you would need would be a multi conductor connector and antenna. Then create a mounting using Dzus or similar easily removable mounting in the unlikely event of being questioned about it.  My understanding is that if it not permanently mounted it would be regarded the same as a handheld.
Regards, Brent O Sent from my iPad

On Sep 25, 2015, at 20:56, Joe Preston Joe@Preston-Company.com [greatlakesbiplane] <greatlakesbiplane@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Marc,
The only way that I know of is to get a field approval for non TSOd parts into a certified aircraft.  You might want to talk to the factory to see what they say. That would certainly be the easiest way, but would probably be a dead end. 
Sometimes your local FSDO will have some leeway. Call as a last resort and ask. They can only say no.
Joe
Sent from my iPad Mini
On Sep 25, 2015, at 20:08, Marc Lee marc@classicjet.com [greatlakesbiplane] <greatlakesbiplane@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hello all:

I confess to not knowing a ton about the FAA's complex TSO regulations, so here is my possibly ignorant question (if it is please tell me).

Our original Bendix.King comm radio is having lots of problems and we want to install anew comm radio. I'm in love with both the Garmin GTR 200 and the  Icom A220. Neither of those radios is TSO'd and my 'Lakes is certified
(thus factory built).

1. Have any of you gotten a field approval from the FAA to install such a radio?
2. If so, can that be used as a basis for the same installation in my airplane?
3. Is there any other option to install one of those radios, short of putting my airplane in the
Experimental category?

It seems incredibly archaic to pay $5,000 or $6,000 for a TSO'd radio when these others are in use everyday in thousands of LSA and perform as good or better than the ancient stuff we have in our airplanes today, for around $1500. Just wondering
if there is ANY way to skin this cat? Thank you!

-- 
Marc C. Lee
(949) 636-1532


______ | ______
_____(*)__/___
     o/ o  

   
ReplyQuote
wayne.mcintyre avatar
(@wayne-mcintyre)
Active Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 8
 
Marc, I installed a Garmin GTR225 early in 2014 in my certified 1929 N333H.  Installed cost ~ $3K.  My old Bendix was OK, and I sold it for $850 on Barnstormers.
FYI, later in 2014 I solved my intercom difficulties with a PS Engineering PM1000-II.  I settled on a Clarity Aloft headset with a larger muff, but no leather mike sleeve.  For the front cockpit, I have a Pilot-USA 1181T + high noise mike + Oregon Aero modification kit.  I sold my Lightspeed Zulu headset, which was useless in the GL.
 

Wayne McIntyre
408-930-1438

From: "Marc Lee marc@classicjet.com [greatlakesbiplane]" To: greatlakesbiplane@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 5:08 PM Subject: [greatlakesbiplane] New comm radio
 

Hello all:

I confess to not knowing a
ton about the FAA's complex TSO regulations, so here is my
possibly ignorant question (if it is
please tell me).

Our original Bendix.King comm radio is
having lots of problems and we want to install anew comm
radio. I'm in love with both the Garmin GTR 200 and the 
Icom A220. Neither of those radios is TSO'd and my 'Lakes is certified (thus factory built).

1. Have any of you gotten a field
approval from the FAA to
install such a radio?
2. If so, can that be used as
a basis for the same installation in my
airplane?
3. Is there any other
option to install one of those radios, short
of putting my airplane in the Experimental category?

It seems incredibly
archaic to pay $5,000 or $6,000 for a
TSO'd radio when these others are in use
everyday in thousands of LSA and perform
as good or better than the ancient stuff
we have in our airplanes today, for
around $1500. Just wondering if there is
ANY way to skin this cat? Thank you!

-- 
Marc C. Lee
(949) 636-1532


______ | ______
_____(*)__/___
     o/ o  

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John Duncan avatar
(@john-duncan)
Estimable Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 174
 

Hello Marc,

As you probably know, an STC is a certification that the 'article' meets certain performance criteria.  I advise you to contact Garmin and Icom for guidance on this matter.  I suspect it is or can be made into a non-issue.
Several years ago, King Radio developed the outstanding KX-170 (non-TSOed) and the KX-175 (TSOed) line of NavComs.  I was told that there were only two differences. The KX-175 had a different nameplate, and had undergone more extensive testing in order to gain TSO certification.  
My point is this: If installing a non TSOed KX-170 NavCom changed a Certified airplane into Experimental, there were thousands of airplanes that inadvertently fell into that category. Kindest Regards,
 
JD

To: greatlakesbiplane@yahoogroups.com From: greatlakesbiplane@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 17:08:00 -0700 Subject: [greatlakesbiplane] New comm radio

 

Hello all:

I confess to not knowing a
ton about the FAA's complex TSO regulations, so here is my
possibly ignorant question (if it is
please tell me).

Our original Bendix.King comm radio is
having lots of problems and we want to install anew comm
radio. I'm in love with both the Garmin GTR 200 and the 
Icom A220. Neither of those radios is TSO'd and my 'Lakes is certified (thus factory built).

1. Have any of you gotten a field
approval from the FAA to
install such a radio?
2. If so, can that be used as
a basis for the same installation in my
airplane?
3. Is there any other
option to install one of those radios, short
of putting my airplane in the Experimental category?

It seems incredibly
archaic to pay $5,000 or $6,000 for a
TSO'd radio when these others are in use
everyday in thousands of LSA and perform
as good or better than the ancient stuff
we have in our airplanes today, for
around $1500. Just wondering if there is
ANY way to skin this cat? Thank you!

-- 
Marc C. Lee
(949) 636-1532


______ | ______
_____(*)__/___
     o/ o  


   
ReplyQuote
psrother avatar
(@psrother)
Estimable Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 194
 

Hi Marc,

    Is your current KX radio in a tray? If so, the easiest (and cheapest) is going to be getting a reconditioned model from one of the avionics suppliers and have it slid into the tray. I have a KX155, and while that model is as old as dirt, it's reliable and easy to replace with a reconditioned one. Swapping in another manufacture radio would be expensive enough just by itself, never mind trying to get some kind of local 337 approval from your FSDO for a non-TSO'd radio.

 

I agree that this whole TSO thing for part 91 operations is ridiculous. There are some amazing new avionics out there and only for the homebuilders since the manufacturers do not want to even try to deal with the insane TSO approval process and costs. I see most owners nowadays have given up on avionics upgrades in the GA piston market and just fly with I pads.

 

Pat


   
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